if I were a rhetorical question, I would look like this

[the_siobhan]

Is it possible for somebody who is pro-life and somebody who is pro-choice to be friends?

Is it simply a matter of difference of opinion? Or is it more than that? Is there an underlying difference in values that makes it impossible to be friends?

What do you think?


What I'm listening to right this second: Stromkern

Comments

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

>It sounds to me like you are making it about your feelings, and I
>think for the people who are saying it, it is about reconciling theirs.

Yeeeeah... Is this bad?

Well, I think it can lead to defensiveness. People have to reconcile their actions with their own belief systems. I think it's asking too much to expect them to act as if their belief systems coincided with ours.

I disagree with some of the choices some people make in terms of other parts of their lives. In fact I am occasionally Really Squicked Out by choices that other people make. So I can't necessarily give full cheerleader Ra Ras, but I can say "I support you in your choice and hope it works out as well as possible for you."

I think that's as much as we can expect from people who are coming from a very different ethical basis. We have to give them the freedom to disagree with us without taking it personally.

(Royal "we", royal "you")

[panic-girl.livejournal.com]

We have to give them the freedom to disagree with us without taking it personally.
It is very hard for me not to take personally a view that says it has rights over my body. That's where all my disconnect comes from.

[(Anonymous)]

I have been watching this thread with great interest. I'm posting anonymously because I don't want you to snap my head off, as you seem to when text on a screen fails to agree with your agenda exactly.

"Pro-choice" means supporting women making choices about their own bodies, whatever those may be - having the child, aborting, adoption, whatever. You seem to think that a woman who is in support of women making these choices (and therefore "pro-choice") but who would not choose an abortion for herself is somehow your moral enemy, somehow not "pro-choice" enough. For someone who's pro-choice, as you claim, you seem to get quite prickly when someone's choices are different from yours (being supportive of women choosing for themselves but not wanting abortion for themselves). I really think you're not seeing the forest for the trees. You're perceiving enemies in your own pro-choice camp on the basis of semantics and getting mighty aggressive and holier-than-thou about it, instead of identifying who the true enemies of women's right to choose really are.

[panic-girl.livejournal.com]

I'm not about to take seriously someone who's afraid of putting their name on their opinions. You may disagree with me, but I at least I stand behind what I say.

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

Um. What?

How does, "I support your right to an abortion but I wouldn't choose one for myself" have anything to do with your body?

[panic-girl.livejournal.com]

Does it even matter what I say at this point?

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

At his point I have no idea what you are talking about.

You are perfectly free to try and explain it to me. You are also perfectly free to decide it's not worth the effort to continue the conversation. Either way, it's pretty much up to you.

[panic-girl.livejournal.com]

At his point I have no idea what you are talking about.
My threads got crossed, but by the time this part happened, I was too discouraged to even try anymore.

[panic-girl.livejournal.com]

Okay here is what you said:
I think that's as much as we can expect from people who are coming from a very different ethical basis. We have to give them the freedom to disagree with us without taking it personally.
Which, to me, meant we were talking about something wider than the "but" camp, into the whole "pro-life" arena. And I was thinking about those people when I said that a group of people who think that they know what is best for my body (abortion is bad, you're killing babies, etc) I DO take personally because it's about MY person.

How does, "I support your right to an abortion but I wouldn't choose one for myself" have anything to do with your body?
Right, so now you have no idea what I'm talking about because this isn't what I'm talking about anymore.

There you go.

[(Anonymous)]

Ah, gotcha. The hazard of holding several conversations at once I guess.

I was still talking about the "but" camp as having a different ethical basis but still respecting our rights to make our own decisions for ourselves.

I don't equate them with the anti-choice anti-sex viewpoint at all.

[panic-girl.livejournal.com]

It's kind of funny really because when you say "very different" I assumed you couldn't be talking about the "but" contingent, because I think they're not that different! How's that for irony in this whole thing. Heh.

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

Sorry, log-in didnt' work.