an apology and an explanation

[the_siobhan]

First of all I apologize for worrying people.

I'm ok, really. I'm just - upset. And I really really hate crying in front of people. And it occurred to me to be rather wry about the fact that I never used to cry when bad things happened to me because I was so numb all the time I didn't feel much. So now that I'm (comparatively) mentally healthy I'm all over the place with the tears and I hate it.

I guess it's not something that translates well in a short LJ post, and I'm sorry for doing that to you.

Long story short, the stomach thing is driving me nuts, I have Axel pointing out to me that I have been getting more frequent and more debilitating migraines lately, I'm starting to get a little concerned about the fact that have been dizzy every day for the past three weeks - and then today I got told I have advanced periodontal disease and I'm going to lose all my teeth.

And that was just my last fucking spoon.

Comments

[betonica.livejournal.com]

I positively despise crying in front of people, so I get you there.
I'm glad to hear that you're really ok, although I must say it sounds like things really suck - very sorry about that.

You won't lose all your teeth. Go buy some folic acid and take gobs of it every day. Best is a liquid rinse that you can slosh around your mouth, but tablets work. Chew them and swish the crumbly stuff around. Take about 10x the recommended dose. Within a few days things will be astonishingly better. Oh - that much folic acid may not be perfect for the rest of you, so after you're done rinsing your mouth with it (a minute?), spit it out.

Frequently rinsing your mouth with lemon juice also works, although it's less pleasant. Kills off all those obnoxious flora/fauna enclaves. Does a number on the enamel of your teeth, too. Brushing and flossing, of course, help, but for some of us they're not enough without the folic acid and/or lemon juice.

Sounds to me like what you really need, though, is a quiet vacation (do you do quiet vacations?) I know we've never met in person, but I can tell that you're way cool (besides, A. said so), so if by some stroke of luck you ever get down thisaway (S. Vermont), you're welcome to stay at my house for as long as you want. I'll take you swimming in a crystal clear lake on the hot days, and you can prop your feet up by the wood stove on the cold days and eat fresh baked bread.

[kalmn.livejournal.com]

in case you're not up for googling it atm, sio, i just poked around, and while it's not precisely the fda recommending folic acid in these situations, the sites that talk about folic acid rinsing for periodontal disease do not seem to be written by complete nutjobs (i am using this in an absolute sense, betonica, not comparing them to you, since so far as i can tell, you're not a nutjob!), and i, ms. western medicine is my friend and i loves it, would certainly try this in your situation. also, folic acid is relatively harmless-- i would go ahead and spit rather than swallow, but looking up folic acid overdose comes up with nothing. call your poison control center if you're worried, but, uh, we don't know what the symptoms are because no one ever complains about it, says drugs.com.

hang in there. you want i should come up there and cut off your head? that'd solve several of your problems.

*hug*

Folic Acid

[theevilchemist.livejournal.com]

"but looking up folic acid overdose comes up with nothing."

That's 'cuse there really is no reported toxicity of folic acid. It's water soluble and not very stable. I've read homocysteine studies giving 8mg/day (10x the USRDA)[1] of Folic acid to people for 6month with no adverse side-effects. The UL of 1000mcg/day is mainly because high folate can mask the symptoms of B12 deficiency.

Here's an abstract from a study done on a 5mg folate/5mL:

A double blind study was designed to determine the effects of folate mouthwash (MW) on established gingivitis in non-pregnant adults. 60 subjects who had >20 teeth, visible gingival inflammation around >6 teeth, no complicated medical history, currently not receiving periodontal treatment or medication, and not wearing dentures, were randomly assigned to control or experimental groups. Full mouth assessment included plaque scores, gingival colour changes, bleeding tendency around every tooth and experience of disease and local factors. Subjects used 5 ml of MW twice daily for 4 weeks, rinsing for 1 min before expectorating. Experimental MW contained 5 mg folate per 5 ml. The control group used a placebo MW. A detailed 3-day diet record was kept by each subject. The oral examination was repeated after 4 weeks. Initially, groups were similar except that the experimental group exhibited more bleeding sites at the outset, but after 4 weeks, the experimental group showed a significant decrease in mean number of colour change sites (from 70.17 ±12.89 to 56.62 ±17.42) and in bleeding sites (from 48.59 ±24.28 to 29.28 ±19.64) compared with control group (colour: from 66.93±15.27 to 66.20± 18.83; bleeding: from 36.93±16.96 to 39.47± 16.67)p<0.001. Dietary analysis showed that few subjects ate >200,μg folate daily. However, the level of dietary folate did not correlate with changes in inflammation in experimental subjects, r=0.097. Folate MW appears to have an influence on gingival health through local rather than systemic influence.

Siobhan, I can lend you my university account if you want to browse around the literature for more info. If you come across one that the university doesn't carry, you can send me the reference and I can get the PDF from work.
jv

jv

Re: Folic Acid

[theevilchemist.livejournal.com]

Leafy greens are loaded with folate, especially spinach. If you have a juicer, you can juice a crap load of anything that' s green and swish that around your mouth. My favorite juicing greens are green peppers, Pok Choi, Rapini, and spinach. Romaine Lettuce also has a crapload of folate.

Vitamins A, C, & K which are also in abundance in leafy greens are also known anti-inflammatories.

Intrestingly enough, I just finished reading a paper on the emission of Volatile Sulfuric Compounds from the mouths of healthy people and people with periodontal disease. The emission levels of methyl mercaptan (pathogenic compound) from the mouth of people with periodontal disease was 5x higher than control and the tongue coating was 4x as thick.

Folic Acid and B12 are intrinsically involved in sulfur metabolism, particularly in the breakdown/rearrangement of sulfur linkages. This jives with the Folic Acid reduction of periodontal disease symptoms if it does so by breaking down methyl mercaptan. Swishing around some B12 lipospray wouldn't hurt either I suppose. Brushing the tongue to reomove the tongue coating seems very important too.
jv

Re: Folic Acid

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

All info filed and appreciated.

I love the greens, so that's not bad news at all - are they strictly effective when used topically, or would increasing them in my diet also be helpful?

Re: Folic Acid

[theevilchemist.livejournal.com]

"I love the greens, so that's not bad news at all - are they strictly effective when used topically

the studies I've read (like yesterday) all deal with topical folate and that dietary folate in the subjects was insignificant. IOW, there wasn't enough dietary folate differences between intervention and control groups to make any reasonable conclusions.

jv

Re: Folic Acid

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

Gotcha. Still, I'm going to go with the "can't hurt" strategy and up my dietary intake while I'm at it.

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

Cutting off my head would solve all my problems.

It would present the problem of where to put my earphones while jogging though.

[baratron.livejournal.com]

I have received megadose folic acid on prescription before to treat depression. It's safer than low dose antipsychotics but does the same job. I was on 10-15 mg a day - and yes, I mean milligrams. They came in 5 mg tablets. I probably still have some around, because I occasionally still need them when premenstrual.

The one danger with folic acid is that if you take any B-vitamin in great quantities, it can knock out your body's reserves of the other B-vitamins. The reasons for this aren't fully understood. As long as you take a good B-vitamin supplement to make sure you don't lose the other B-vitamins, it's basically fine unless you're pregnant (when all bets are off, and the recommended levels of folic acid differ from week to week).

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the recommendation on the folic acid, I will definitely look for that. I'm also going to start taking calcium more regularly (which I should be doing anyway, since osteoporosis is a problem on both sides of my family, but I'm slack about it.) I have no idea if it will help, but it sure as hell can't hurt.

And your house sounds gorgeous. I just might take you up on that offer at some point.

[betonica.livejournal.com]

I have lots of students hanging out in the kitchen many evenings, who seem to agree with you on the gorgeous bit. I will be delighted to have you here any time.

On the health front, greens, mentioned elsewhere, are a great idea. I suspect they don't have nearly enough folate to make a huge difference directly in your mouth, but the folic acid they do have is balanced by other vitamins and flavonoids and things, and so is better for you in general. Eating more greens *and* rinsing (for one minute) & spitting with folic acid (aka folate) is probably an ideal protocol. It sounds like you've got a good handle on the calcium as well - those greens, again, contain some calcium, well balanced with other things (e.g., magnesium) that are a good idea for bone health.