musings on the meta

[the_siobhan]

I've been having an onging discussion with the_axel over the last few weeks about the design of LJ and how I think it often serves to encourage really bad behaviour. Or maybe "encourage" is the wrong word. I think it creates a climate where certain kinds of bad behaviour are really easy to do and so people tend to stumble into them without maybe even realizing what they are doing.

If I understood the debate correctly (it usually happens over several beers) Axel's stance is that it's not the fault of the tool when somebody uses it badly. Whereas I think that by configuring tools in a certain way, you encourage certain kinds of use. Kind of a "if the only tool you have is a hammer, pretty soon every problem starts to look like a nail" kind of situation.

And I think LJ is a particular kind of hammer.

I've seen friends behave in ways that made me squirm with embarrassment for them, at how high-school and immature they were being. And I know they are doing it because they think they can't be seen, that invisibility makes it ok or at the very least harmless. I've seen people manipulate the facts or just flat-out lie to make themselves look like the victim and the good-guy. And I knew that they were doing it because it's really easy to get stroked and have people outraged on their behalf if they bend the facts just a little bit.

There are entire communities who exist solely as a forum for people to be assholes. And the people who post there encourage and applaud each other for their assholishness until everybody starts to think that such behaviour is normal and acceptable. And then they start tracking it out into the rest of their interactions with the world like dogshit on a sneaker. The entire childfree community is a prime example of that particular flavour of bullshit.

And it's not that I think that people don't do shitty things in person, or through other types of communication. It's the LJ seems to be ideally suited for that particular kind of nonsense, with all the filters that let me choose who reads what I write. Or I could just slag people off in public and ban them from being able to defend themselves. And it's tempting sometimes. I hate that shit, it makes me break out in rants and still sometimes it's tempting when something has happened that has pissed me off. I could do it by email but it's so much more effort that it just doesn't occur to me. On LJ it's just a point-and-click away.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not on a LJ suxOrs kick and I'm not about to delete mine. I love the fact that I can have a little rantlet like this and get discussion and feedback from all kinds of people. But I'm occasionally tempted to leave LJ for some other kind of blog format, just because I don't like how high-school it can be at times.

And calling the reading lists "friends"? Dumbest idea ever.

Comments

[siani-hedgehog.livejournal.com]

I've seen people manipulate the facts or just flat-out lie to make themselves look like the victim and the good-guy. And I knew that they were doing it because it's really easy to get stroked and have people outraged on their behalf if they bend the facts just a little bit.

i've never been entirely convinced that the majority of people are *capable* of being entirely truthful. we're social animals, and we're hardwired to manipulate social status. it's what humans do, all the time, in all social networks.

i think it's too much to expect to rely on anyone's word on its own, especially in any situation where there's a possible 'victim'. the overwhelming majority of people always try to make themselves look good. the ones who are good at it, you just don't *notice*. it's a sophisticated dance, between looking vulnerable when it doesn't matter, and looking good when it does.

i rather like LJ. i resisted it for a long time. but as far as i'm concerned it's just a social networking tool. an easy way to keep in touch with a lot of people about a lot of things without having to write long individual emails about the same things to loads of different people. like alt.gothic was, only rather more diverse.

i haven't noticed much of the drama, although i have heard things that i thought pretty mild called "drama", and i haven't noticed much of the hundreds of different journals just for bitching, or forums that exist just for being an asshole in. i found dramatards kind of a distasteful concept like that, though.

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

Apparently, yelling at somebody is now considered "drama".

Which I think is kind of funny.

[panic-girl.livejournal.com]

I did wonder about deleting it for a while, but the people there really liked it existing, so exist it does.

[siani-hedgehog.livejournal.com]

yeah - it seems to have managed not to get ugly because of the user demographics. it's populated by non-retards. i've got a snide remark making community on my f-list too - crapathy_watch - but it's also one for non-retards.

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

Everybody is capable of being a retard. It's a very human flaw.

The difference is in whether or not you choose to wallow in it.

i took a day to think about that...

[siani-hedgehog.livejournal.com]

i'd put it differently, myself. everyone is capable of doing and saying retarded things. some people do very little else. i'm not really sure that's a choice they make. i think they might just BE generally crap. this makes it easier for me to forgive them sometimes.

Re: i took a day to think about that...

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

I'm not disputing that at all.

The difference is that crap people I can just choose not to deal with. When people I like are crap it causes me a lot of stress, because I have higher expectations of them.

Re: i took a day to think about that...

[kest]

REally? When people I like are occasionally crap, I find it easy to forgive them, because no one's perfect and I mostly like them. The stress for me comes when people I thought I liked look like they might be turning out to be crap overall, because that can go all bad-breakup at worst, and at best is disappointing.

Re: i took a day to think about that...

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

I find it very easy to forgive people for being occasionally crap. I find it very easy to forgive people for being consistantly crap in an area where it doesn't really hurt anyone.

I find it hard to forgive meanness though, and I don't have a lot of respect for cowardice. And this particular rant was inspired by seeing numerous incidents of both coming from people I otherwise like. And because it's easy to do with this particular tool - as opposed to say Usenet, where all your wobbling warts aere out in the open for everybody to see - I see a lot more people slipping into that behaviour who I would rather think were above it.

Re: i took a day to think about that...

[siani-hedgehog.livejournal.com]

i like people because they aren't *generally* crap. a little brown spot in their personalities i can easily forgive - i don't expect perfection.

if i find them turning out to be mostly crap, i'm generally only angry at myself, for not realising straight away.