they minted 6 Irish faces, and I have one of them

[the_siobhan]

I had this conversation with a couple of people last night about the experience of being part of the Irish diaspora.

Culturally I'm about as Canadian as it gets. I've lived her since I was just under three years old, most of my "real" memories are set in Canada. Most of my attitudes and values are a direct result of living in the largest city in the country with one of the most diverse populations.

So you know, not all that Irish.

I wasn't even born there. My parents met in England. I have an Irish passport because my parents are Irish born and raised. For a long time that led to the_axel telling me I was actually English, a practice that came very close to getting him brained with something heavy and made out of metal.

But at the same time, I do identify at least partly with the condition of "being" Irish. Not because of some mystical connection or or some misguided idea that one can identify with a culture based on reading about it.

But because the whole history of my family is very strongly tied up with having come from that country and it's weird-ass version of Catholicism. (As opposed to any other country's particular weird-ass version of Catholicism.) The dysfunction that has been handed down from generation to generation. The alcoholism. Some of the genetic stuff. The experiences of my parents' that have profoundly shaped their lives have in their turn profoundly and inescapably influenced mine; my experiences, my personality, all the things I've celebrated and struggled with over the years.

I'm not Irish in that I did not grow up there, any ideas I might have about the current culture are based solely on what I know from relatives who never left. But to say I'm not Irish is to negate a huge component in what influenced my life. As much as being born white. As much as being born female.

I don't wear green to celebrate Padraig - I usually avoid pubs on his night. I don't think of myself of being particularly proud of being Irish. (Although I occasionally make jokes about being proud of having survived being Irish.) I loathe leprauchauns and shamrocks and all the kitschy bullshit.

And I will never, unless it is the final option in the struggle to save my loved ones from the Zombie Apocalypse, ever be caught dead drinking green fucking beer.

Comments

[ravensee.livejournal.com]

I identify in that my family's history has both Irish and Galician blood. Both D and R are of Irish descent. My inlaws want Alex to take Irish dancing lessons.

The first time I fell in love with a book for the first time when I read Ulysses.


I think my Irish fixation is akin to a fetish.;P

[50-ft-queenie.livejournal.com]

Same here. I've never even been to Ireland, but my father's family came from Ireland, and part of my mother's too.

My grandmother was so fucking Catholic it hurt, in a very narrow and judgemental way, and I believe that shaped a lot of my father's ideas and neuroses, which he then passed onto my sister and I, and which we're both fighting to get free of.

I have a lot of alcoholism in my family on both sides (the Scots on my mother's side were heavy drinkers too) and lots of family feuds because both sides of the family are incredibly proud, stubborn and hold grudges like the dickens.

[jasontheknight.livejournal.com]

And just what's wrong with being English young lady?

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

Nothing at all, if that's what you are. I just ain't.

Besides, he only did it to piss me off.

[jasontheknight.livejournal.com]

Ah, in that case, kick his ass!

[sarah-mum.livejournal.com]

As a wise woman once said "I was born in hospital, dun't make me a doctor" where you're *from* is about so much more than geography.

It strikes me more and more that St Paddy's day is a celebration of 'wanting to be Oirish' (as you say, you can't get it from reading a book or listening to a song) rather than a celebration of or by the Irish. Why are there no Welsh wanabees waving leeks on St Davids?

[disastrid.livejournal.com]

Why are there no Welsh wanabees waving leeks on St Davids?

hahahaha. you kill me.

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

My dad had a similar expression. "If I were born in a stable, would you say I was a horse?"

I think Sts Andrew and George get off pretty damned lightly too. And it's not like the world isn't also full of Scots wannabees.

[panic-girl.livejournal.com]

And it's not like the world isn't also full of Scots wannabees.
We're much quieter about our drinking is all.
Irish drinking is fun, or so the perception goes.
Have some music, dance about, get in a fight, tra la.
Scots drinking is sitting around complaining. Less fun.

[inulro.livejournal.com]

It wasn't until I started living and working with Irish people that I found out the Irish do actually celebrate Paddy's Day. I always thought it was a wannabe thing.

I'm pretty sure there's no green beer though.

[mathochist.livejournal.com]

I thought the whole green thing was a protestant thing, anyway. Isn't it supposed to be orange for Catholics?

[sarah-mum.livejournal.com]

no, other way around. Orange for 'William of ...'

[raindrops.livejournal.com]

Green beer is eeeeeeeeevil. Who wants to piss green?

It's an affront to beer everywhere, Irish or otherwise (and good luck turning Guinness green).

From a post someone on my flist made yesterday:

If you want to celebrate St Pat’s today, eat a raw potato, build a house out of peat and get yourself shot by an Englishman.

And guess what? If you were born in America, you’re not Irish, you’re fucking American. Deal with it.

(Though I still advise American tourists in Europe to tell people they’re Canadian at all times.)

This was your Daily Truth. Please return to your duties. Thank you.

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

Ah, Mr Ellis. The curmudgeon himself. :-)

[marchenland.livejournal.com]

Proper beer can't be dyed green. Dur.

I get v. sick of St. Patrick's Day. Me, all damn day: "For the millionth time, red hair and green eyes do NOT a fucking Irish lass make, now GO AWAY!"

Although, I do think that said combo should get me a pass on wearing green on the day. Not that I would; I avoid wearing any color that implies I've picked a side in ancient wars. Except maybe black. That's about the only appropriate color.

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

Every year I get asked why I'm not wearing green for St Paddy's day. And I always say I'm already Irish, green is for wannabees.

Although I did dye my hair green once for the occasion.

[spikella.livejournal.com]

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Although you are technically about 1000x more irish than me, its the history, the 'weird-ass' catholicism, the ideals, the morals, the traditions, the alcoholisms, that make up who we are if we have history from that fine and tortured country.

And its the green beer, leprauchans, and kitschy bullshit that most people who know, live and understand the history hate.

[mr-sharkey.livejournal.com]

"The alcoholism. Some of the genetic stuff. The experiences of my parents' that have profoundly shaped their lives have in their turn profoundly and inescapably influenced mine"

Shit flows down hill, my dear, but maybe there's less of it.


M.

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think the further one gets, and the more one's experiences are part of one's adopted country, the less effect old wounds have.

I know my nephews didn't have to deal with a quarter of the crap we did. (Although their lives certainly weren't entirely crap-free.) My daughter got saddled with some of the more unpleasant genetic stuff unfortunately.

[billyname99.livejournal.com]

Interesting.

I have no real ties to any of my "ethnic background" because I was adopted. I was told that my Birth Mother was Half Irish & half Swedish, while my Biological father was (supposedly) Danish with a bit of German thrown into the mix.

My mom, (the one that raised me,) was born in Wyoming, and as far as I know her parentage was English, with some German/Jewish thrown in on her father's side.

I was neven raised with any real ethnic identity (with the exception of "American"), and I was quite fortunate NOT to have been indoctrinated into any particular church/religion/cult, etc.

So I consider myself to be 'Western'.

I was born in Idaho, raised in Oregon & California, and I chose Nevada.

What does this mean? Not a whole hell of a lot actually.

But then again I am not burdened with any of the typical ethnic baggage from my Nordic/Celtic/Teutonic ancestry.

And I am quite pleased with this after listening to Sharons Serbian Parents,Cousins,Aunts,Uncles and other relatives go on and on about racial/tribal/religious feuds and wars that have been over for 500 years.

IMO, Family has nothing to do with who you happen to be Related to, but the people you Choose to have in your life.

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

IMO, Family has nothing to do with who you happen to be Related to, but the people you Choose to have in your life.

I happen to agree with you, but I'm not sure what it means in this context.

[the_axel]

What does this mean? Not a whole hell of a lot actually.

It means a huge amount. You're saying that you were raised as a Western American, which means you'll have a different set of ethnic baggage from, let's say, an Acadian from the Louisiana, or a guy from Vermont who can trace his family lineage ancestry back to the English Colonial era or the desdendent of slaves from Alabama or a Navajo.

But then again I am not burdened with any of the typical ethnic baggage from my Nordic/Celtic/Teutonic ancestry.

Sure you are. American culture was built by Nordic, Celtic & Teutonic invaders who brought their ethnic baggage with them. Spend some time in other cultures & the differences & similarities become very apparent.

IMO, Family has nothing to do with who you happen to be Related to, but the people you Choose to have in your life.

So how does that work when you're 2 years old, or 4, or 6, or 8? How much choice do you have over who your family is in your formative years?

Sure, you can choose to exclude them in late life, but you can never undo the impact they've had.

[pfrank.livejournal.com]

I went to the beer store on saturday, to pick up something to drink quietly at home, and the owner was on the phone with some genius that was looking for a keg of green beer. The owner said "Any beer I would disrespect enough to dye it green is not a beer worth drinking."

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not always clear on what it means to be decended from any group of people in particular. When I visited England anyway, I know I felt some sort of connection there, but I get homesick when I'm out of Canada for more than 5 days. So when I get off the plane in Toronto, I smell that poluted air and say "Ahhhhhh, it's good to be home."

The only time I really freaked out over being Half Irish was when my (adoptive) grandmother called me Polish. She said "Well your mother was Polish, and so I see you as Polish." This pissed me off on a level that has yet to be measured. Not because I have anything against Polish people, or because I don't love my mom or anything (which grandma also called into question after I met Siobhan) but because she refused to acknowledge a part of my identity that is actually there. I've also found myself getting angry when people have assumed I'm Italian...I'm not Italian.

My parents have noted I have had a craving for potatoes since early childhood. So who knows? Being half Irish doesn't define me, but it's still there. I think St. Patrick was a bastard. I spent the day with a couple frinds here at home and listened to Irish Flute music. We didn't want to deal with people wearing green hats and using the holiday as an excuse to act like assholes.

Jenn*

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't call you Polish, but if your mother's Polish background had some effect on her upbringing, then I would certainly say that there is a Polish influence in your life. You know what I mean?

The craving for potatoes is just flat-out hilarious. They have become so much a part of our cultural identity in the eyes of the world, and they aren't even indigenous to Ireland.

[(Anonymous)]

Sure! But she didn't say "you are influenced by Polish culture" she said "You ARE Polish!" Anyway, growing up eating meat on a stick, pierogis, and beet soup on Easter and Christmas, and knowing how to say "Holy Mary Mother" in Polish, which is a curse, is really the bulk of it.

"They have become so much a part of our cultural identity in the eyes of the world." I don't think it's just a stereotype. Every time we visit Frances's house, she has seven different types of potatoes with dinner.
BTW, I think we should visit her soon.