grammarians and librarians

[the_siobhan]

It occurs to me that if one is using the singular "they" to refer to a non-binary or intersexed individual, the proper way to construct an English sentence would be to also use the third person singular noun. For example, "They is absent today."

Can't quite get the hang of doing it.

Old habits, old dogs, something something.

Comments

[lil_m_moses]

I'd been wondering about that. I guess if you think of the pronoun as a name it might help? That's still some powerful training to overcome, though.

[elusis]

Actually folks typically use "they are." "Ace is coming over for dinner. Remember, they are gluten-free."

[sabotabby]

I asked a non-binary friend who is a good writer and they said "they are absent today" is correct.

[chasing_silver]

I've always used "they are" - the people I work with who are non-binary use that too.

[smhwpf]

Conjugations and declensions and grammar in general do not always follow logic. We have "you are" for both singular and plural, because previously the second person singular nominative was "thou", and one only used "you" in the singular when being very formal or addressing a social superior. But now we use "you are" rather than "thou art" with everyone. So although by one logic a singular "they" should go with the third person singular part of "to be", in practice we bring over the "are" part of the verb along with the "they" pronoun. So "correct" conjugation, in terms of generally accepted usage, is indeed "I am, you are, he is, she is, they are, we are, you are, they are".

[runcible]

"They is" almost feels like the Royal "We".

They are not amused, etc.

[houseof9cats]

The grammar argument is that 'they' is now like 'you', which is both singular and plural and takes 'are'. :)

[the_siobhan]

Oh, I had forgotten about thou.

One of the interesting things about internet speak is that it's compressing conjugations. "I has a flavour".

[boxofdelights]

I just heard a young guy on Twitch, teasing a member of his audience named VanillaIsh, say, "Don't praise VanillaIsh, it'll go to their heads."

VanillaIsh is just one person, but if you don't know their gender, they have two heads!

[greylock]

I think we may have (well, I did) thrash out this one back in the day when *THEY* were trying to make 'fetch' happen (in that case Zie/Xie/whatever it was).

I had a point. It wondered off.

[ouranophobe]

On the one hand, I use "they are." On the other hand, my giant tea mug says "Themself" rather than "Themselves." (It amuses me greatly.)

Of course, if we could get more traction with neologistic pronouns, this might be easier to resolve, but in the meantime, I rather like the "royal 'we'" angle.

While we're at it, is intersex a verb or an adjective? :D

[the_siobhan]

I liked zie. I'm a bit sad it didn't catch on.

[the_siobhan]

That sounds Irish to me. My mother had mugs that said "herself" and "himself" and I remember being completely nonplussed by relatives opening up a phone conversation with, "Is that yourself then?"

Intersex has to be an adjective, yeah? Since it's something people are, rather than what they do.

[greylock]

I guess we disagreed.
But that was a simpler time.
If it had been adopted, I reckon we'd have too many pronouns now.

This topic makes me feel old. Like society has moved on. :|

[ouranophobe]

Yeah, the construction comes out of Gaelic, you'll find it in Scotland, as well, or, at least, I certainly heard it now and again when I was in Edinburgh.

cantornocturnis and I have a pair of mugs that say "herself" and "himself" that we acquired somehow some while back... they were my inspiration to get us mugs that say "themself" and "himself."

[greylock]

I actually had a dream 'bout this conversation in the early hours this morning.
I realised life would have been so much *easier* for me if it had.

[tcpip]

Superb explanation, thank you.