behind the closet door

[the_siobhan]

I've seen a bunch of people link to this story and it made me think about a conversation I had recently with the_axel regarding Coming Out Day. For those who don't feel like clicking through all the links, a woman who had been diagnosed with chronic depression by her doctor is claiming that she was cut off from her disability benefits because she posted pictures of herself on Facebook doing something other than sitting in her basement in the dark and listening to Morrissey.

Regardless of whether or not one believes her side of the story, it's pretty obvious what the primary objective of any insurance company is going to be in a case like this. They are going to want to get out of paying benefits to one of their clients. What interests me most about the news coverage is that a lot of people who comment on the case appear to think that the insurance company is completely justified in judging somebody's mental health based on the fact that there is evidence they once left the house and smiled in public. That tells me that in spite of the fact that depression is one of the most common mental health problems in the Western Hemisphere, very few people who are not themselves depressed know anything about it and how it works.

I suffer from chronic depression. Do I go to parties? Hells, yeah. And there have been days when it's been bad enough where the thought of going to a party made me burst into tears. There have also been many days it was bad enough that I couldn't go to work. Do the people I work with know about that? Probably not, unless they are a) really observant b) know more about depression than the average man on the street and c) are really adept at putting two and two together. And probably not even then. I put a lot of effort into being "normal" when I'm at work. Most of the time I am kinda sorta normal. That doesn't mean I'm not depressed.

So what does this have to do with Coming Out Day? Well it happens to be one of those things that I always make fun of it because I'm an asshole and because I tend to think it's funny when I see the same individuals coming out year after year to the same people. But although my poor social skills lend themselves to mocking the execution, that doesn't mean I lack respect for the concept. From what I know of Coming Out Day, it was initially proposed by Harvey Milk[1] as a way of normalizing being gay. If queer people are your doctors, plumbers, teachers - and more importantly family members - it becomes a lot less easy to dismiss "the gays" as those alien creatures who are out to steal your precious bodily fluids. Most importantly it means people who are growing up gay can look into the world and see healthy normal human beings with lives instead of having to rely on half-baked gossip and Jerry Springer episodes.

Which leads me to wonder. How useful would it be to have a Coming Out Day for people who's are wired differently from the norm in terms of how their brains work?

The common perception among "normal" people is that being crazy makes one dangerous. Their only education about something like say schizophrenia is reading the very occasional news story about delusional out-patients attacking people on the bus with sharp objects.[2] And I can't help but wonder if it would change their views on mental health issues to know that one of the co-workers they have been working beside for years just happens to be bi-polar. Or schizophrenic. Or has multiple personalities. Or has sociopathic traits.[3]

What do you think? Would it make it easier to function in the world of people who are biochemically and neurologically average if we approached mental, emotional and neurological differences the same way we did differences in sexual orientation?[4] Would it make life easier to be able to just tell your boss that you need to take a couple of days to get your new meds adjusted instead of claiming that you have the flu again? Would it make any difference at all?

What do you think? And if you were "crazy" - would you be willing to stick your neck out?

[1] From what I understand he didn't always manage to live up to his own standards. I don't think it makes the concept any less admirable. In some ways it actually makes his contribution more apt because it shows just how tough actually walking the walk really is.
[2] Really, sane people do this shit way more often.
[3] Real life examples. I swear I have no idea why people confide in me with this shit.
[4] This rhetorical question is brought to you by living in a country where being gay is considered normal.

Comments

[liz-lowlife.livejournal.com]

I have been "coming out" as a mad, depressed nut job (and a Synaesthete) for quite a while now.
Every one at work knows that I am a fruit loop and all my friends and family know.
The first is an ILLNESS like any other illness and the latter...well that's just the way my brain works (I was diagnosed as a child) and I can't change that.
Some people were uncomfortable with me being so open about having had a break down, but my attitude was, "Live with it, fuckface!"

so yes, us bonkersesque types SHOULD stand up and be counted...and respected.

[hellsop.livejournal.com]

I dunno.. I don't expect you to answer for anyone other than yourself but consider: Do you want your depression accepted so that it can be wrapped together with your identity and become part of you forever, or do you want to be free of it, to have it fixed?

[the_axel]

How do you 'fix' depression, or manic-depression or dissociative identity disorder or psychopathy or...?

Relieving symptoms <> 'fix'.

[hellsop.livejournal.com]

I know that. The question isn't whether it's currently possible to do these things, but whether it's important/good to do so. It's currently not okay to be striving to fix non-hetrosexuality. Should it be not-okay to fix depression or disassociative conditions, bipolar conditions etc?

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

That should depend on the individual shouldn't it?

There are people in my life who are determined to believe that I am refusing to fix myself because I don't take drugs for it. If I were forced to do things their way I would be so sick I'd never be able to do the things that actually make me get better, never mind actually hold down a job.

[satorisearching.livejournal.com]

We also live in a society where it's not okay to shun people in wheelchairs. The fact that work is being done to better treat and/or cure a disease doesn't preclude being more accepting of those with that disease in the meantime.

[unagothae.livejournal.com]

Acceptance does not equal leaving things the way that they are. It simply means treating people with dignity and respect while we work individually and collectively on making sure that everybody has a livable (that's better than survivable) quality of life.

We = everybody: those who suffer, those in contact with those who suffer, those who seek to ease the suffering of others, the assholes who contribute to suffering with their ignorance, whether it is benign or hate-filled.

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

I've had to learn to accept the fact that I will never be fixed. I have a repeating cycle of ignoring it because it's "better" and then not doing my maintenance work and falling back into the hole. It is a part of my identity and my life whether I like it or not and pretending otherwise does me no favours.

[greylock.livejournal.com]

It's so crazy it just might work.

(Sorry).

Actually, I can see this back-firing. Most people don't believe in depression. They think it's laziness, or that people just need to cheer the fuck up, or get out into the sun, or pop some pills.
Or declaring being bi-polar as the trendy thing to do.

OTOH, I suppose the downside isn't that different to your original Coming Out Day.

[rbowspryte.livejournal.com]

This rhetorical question is brought to you by living in a country where being gay is considered normal.

I would like to argue this point. Only in metropolitan areas (with a few rare exceptions here and there) is gay "normal". Travel outside those areas even just a bit and you quickly see the difference. A lot of work still has to be done elsewhere, (Halton region is good example) people are still harassed and singled out daily.

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I realized I'm glossing over a lot of existing problems. We do have legal marriage rights though, and I think that's a huge step.

[rbowspryte.livejournal.com]

Agreed. I know it sounds snarky or as a retort but honestly next time I'm bashed or have to care for the well being of someone who is I'll remember that.

It's a sensitive issue lately with all the boneheaded work things to deal with and some comments I've got in my own damn neighbourhood.

[canticle.livejournal.com]

Don't ever move to Alberta.

Trust me.

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

Alberta now is what Toronto was like 30 years ago.

[xthlcm.livejournal.com]

Where the parallel breaks down is that gayness is no longer medicalized and treated as a disease, the way mental disorders are. It's hard to help people understand the difference between the "disease" (depression) and the "crazy" (collecting and wearing beaver hats). I guess it depends on how much the individual accepts their condition as part of their identity, rather than a disease to be treated and managed.

If I came out to my coworkers as someone with chronic depression, to me it would feel to me a bit like coming out as someone with diabetes -- everyone, myself included, acknowledges it as a problem that requires treatment and management, and I don't really consider it a core part of my identity. So why make a big deal of it?

The beaver hat thing on the other hand -- OUT OF THE CLOSET AND INTO THE STREETS!

(http://img687.imageshack.us/i/fleecebeaverhatwithtail.jpg/)

[channonyarrow.livejournal.com]

But bear in mind, the fact that for many people in the West (obviously, not all, but more than formerly) "being gay" isn't seen as a medical problem with an obvious treatment is, in part, due to the years between now and the 1950s - when, let's face it, you could pretty much also have a medical diagnosis of being a woman. It's not that time has gone along, it's that people - a lot of people - refused to accept that they were medically fixable.

I don't - as someone with a lot of mental health issues, but less severe than many others - see Prozac as much more than electroshock therapy, quite frankly. Medical diagnosis of mental health issues does provide, in some cases, valuable, needed care, but in other cases it's an effort to achieve a baseline that I don't respect.

Do I want my mental health issues to be part of my identity? Not really, no. But at the same time, I'd rather it be accepted as something people can be, too, and I feel that I have to work to that.

[marchenland.livejournal.com]

Electroconvulsive therapy (ECT) is considered a very effective treatment for depression. I considered it for myself, although I seem to have dealt with my depression in other ways. If I ever fall back into it, I will seek ECT.

It's not really the leather straps and fryer thing of the 1930s anymore.

[missjanette.livejournal.com]

my late partner had ECT. He said it was the only thing that ever worked for his depression. (he had schizophrenia, anxiety disorder, chronic depression & dysomnia.)

I am totally willing to tell you what he told me about ECT if you're interested.

[excess-and-oohs.livejournal.com]

TMS looks better, imo.

[neoliminal.livejournal.com]

+1

[dj-doc.livejournal.com]

If I came out to my coworkers as someone with chronic depression, to me it would feel to me a bit like coming out as someone with diabetes -- everyone, myself included, acknowledges it as a problem that requires treatment and management, and I don't really consider it a core part of my identity. So why make a big deal of it?

That's exactly how I see it but that's not how it works for most people.

A couple of years ago I was assembling a team for a high preasure/small timeframe project and one of the guys I really wanted in it came to my desk and asked me if we could go for lunch as he wanted to tell me something in private. So at lunch he toled me he was suffering from depressions and that at times it was so bad that he just couldn't do his job. Well he's good in what he does and I just made sure to have an other person working with him to make sure we don't get a Single Point of Failure.

I myself do have a chronic migrane so I guess that's why it never crossed my mind to not get him into the team because there was a risc that he needed some downtime.

The problem in our world is that we can not expect people that work in departements called "Human Resource" to think and act different than anybody else who manages resources...

[elusis.livejournal.com]

Perfect example of how everyone does not see depression and other mental illness the same way.

My example was when I worked for Whole Foods - they "self-insured" and thus could evade federal parity laws requiring them to provide coverage for mental health. In the interest of "collaboration" they let employees of the company vote on the benes every year, by assigning chunks of dollars to the benes they felt were important. Naturally the only people who ever voted to spend chunks on mental health care were the people who'd actually needed it; most people voted what they saw as their own self-interest, with no idea that maybe without therapy and meds, their coworker with the silent depression might go on disability leave, lose their job entirely, etc. etc. So we never got any mental health benes, and I went unmedicated for two years, which in retrospect was *really* bad timing.

[ravensee.livejournal.com]

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<emHow useful would it be to have a Coming Out Day for people who's are wired differently from the norm in terms of how their brains work?</em>

I have to think about this thoroughly for a bit.

But thank you for making me think about this since it has been on the back of my mind.

[50-ft-queenie.livejournal.com]

Looking at my own family and circle of friends, I know people who have or have had chronic depression, post-partum depression, OCD, and bi-polar disorder. I suspect that almost everyone knows someone who has a mental illness, whether they're aware of it or not. On that basis alone, I think it would be hugely important for brain differences of all kinds to be acknowledged and talked about. That's going to take a lot of time and education though, and some people may still continue to believe that all people with mental illnesses are dangerous and unfit for mainstream society. Kinda of how some people still feel that way about gay people despite all the progress we've made.

Sort of on a tangent, the only time mental illness has thrown me for a real loop was when a close friend had a psychotic break that led to two years of psychosis and delusional behaviour. She turned into a stranger, someone I didn't recognize at all, and I'm still kind of messed up over it.

[ihvpave.livejournal.com]

This is kinda a wonky thing for me, 'cos as noted by others, gay isn't a treatable disease other than by refusal to acknowledge it. And as far as I know, my addiction stuff is the only illness I deal with regularly.

On the other hand, many, many of my loved ones deal with them on a daily basis, and I know how much the stigma of their various iterations hurt them. There are those with mental health issues that do need medical assistance to function, others that have various other coping mechanisms, some that use a combination.

It's a sticky subject, I think, because while on the one hand, the spectrum of human experience and reality should be accepted easily, it's human nature - by and large - to create normalisation based on one's own experiences. And some animals will always consider themselves "more equal."

To be honest, being able to tell a boss that you need a few days to get your meds adjusted would be nice for strictly physical concerns too - I know too many people with chronic diseases who don't have that as an option, either: MS, CP, cluster migranes, rhumatoid arthritis, fibro, etc.

[xthlcm.livejournal.com]

Also: ever seen this?

Out of the Darkness (http://www.theovernight.org/)

[dark-phoenix54.livejournal.com]

I'd like to think it would work well, but you'd have to get every single person to come out at the same time to make it work and overwhelm the NTs by sheer numbers. Because here's how it works sometimes when someone comes out:

There was a panel in this county about increasing services to people with mental illness. It was about 6 people, and they interacted well and were bringing a lot of ideas to the table. Then one woman spoke up and said "You know, I have mental illness. I've been institutionalized in the past, and I know that, despite my best efforts, I will be again at times. People like me need, more than anything, to be listened to and accepted as part of the community".

After a stunned silence, talk around the table resumed. After about 20 minutes, the woman spoke up again. "Have any of you noticed that, since I told you I have mental illness, not one of you has directed a comment to me, or even looked at me? This is what I am talking about. You accepted me as equal before I spoke up; now I am invisible."

I don't know what happened then; the woman telling me this (one of the ones who wasn't looking at the woman who spoke) was making the point that she, a charter member of the Human Rights Task Force, had prejudices she wasn't even aware she had. I assume there was a big silence again; I don't know if they managed to include her in their dialogue again. But that's the kind of thing I fear.

My own story: I applied for life insurance. The quote came back with me needing to pay a higher rate than average. I expected that; I'm diabetic, after all. But the agent said that no, the higher rate was ALSO because of my mental illness- OCD and chronic depression. I pointed out that I was not suicidal and (fairly) well controlled on meds. He said "Yeah, now, but you never know when you're going to start barking and chasing cars!" He was fucking serious; that's how he saw me that day, in a way he did NOT see me the week before. Yeah, I'm out to my friends, but that's as far as it goes.

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

Today I was in a training session on the subject of change. And the instructor brought up the stages of reaction to loss, one of them being depression. "Not clinical depression, where you get carted off by the men in the white coats..."

It shocked me to the point of completely losing the next few things she said. I'm trying to think of the best way to offer feedback on that particular comment, because there is no way in hell that I'm going to let that go.

[dark-phoenix54.livejournal.com]

That is just... unbelieveable. It makes me cringe that this person is an instructor in anything to do with mental health!

I'm afraid I'm no help with how to address this. I don't know whether an email with some links to good sites on depression would be best, or if talking to he would be better. *shakes head* Best of luck with this.

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

I'm going to talk to my boss. The bank actually has some pretty clear policies in regards to tolerance and medical accommodations in the workplace, so I'm pretty sure I won't get any resistance.

It does mean "coming out" though. Oh, the irony.

[marchenland.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty open about my struggles with depression and PTSD. I have no clue what people think about it.

The sooner insurance companies go the way of hot lead type, the better.

[amon-zero.livejournal.com]

Re: Insurance companies - seconded! Hopefully a day will come when people look back on them as a barbarous quirk of history, because we came up with a better way of doing things.

[dj-doc.livejournal.com]

Well it should be handled on a need to know base just like any other chronic medical condition. But what would be more important imho would be to educate people about mental/biochemical conditions.

[(Anonymous)]

Today at work my supervisor came by with a form asking me about any medical conditions, emergency contacts, etc. I started freaking out a little inside and decided not to divulge my mood disorder. The last time I did, I got the impression that boss man saw it as some sort of excuse, at a time when I was having an extremely hard time with it. I can come out to close friends, but the general public is not generally accepting, and maybe we should do something about it.

There was this article I read a few months ago about a movement called Mad Rights. It was very interesting. People with various mental conditions demanding the dignity and respect any other would expect. The comment section was even more interesting. While there were the predictable "Do we want to encourage the crazies" comments, and fear mongers, there were a LOT more comments from bi-polar and schizophrenic people expressing joy that there is a movement and it's about fucking time! Many people started posting their stories and things that they do for themselves that help. Most said they do not take meds, some say they feel they have to because of the severity of their condition. The hate was drown out, and it was funny because it was the people who have to live with this shit who sounded the most reasonable and caring amongst the crowd.

I think I'm going to ask my supervisor aside and talk to her about it, because I know she will let me explain myself thoroughly and so far the people I work with are extremely understanding people. The winter months are really hard to deal with, and I have a bad habit of tricking myself into thinking being depressed is a result of thinking wrong.

Jenn

[ladyclayton.livejournal.com]

I think this is a very interesting question.

To my family and most of my friends, I wouldn't need to "come out" on mental health issues. Most people close to me know that I have dealt with depression in the past, and in 2002, I was diagnosed with something else that I won't go into here. 2005 was the worst year ever, and I almost didn't come out of it. I'm glad I did, and while I still get down from time to time, the bad days have a bottom to them, and the sadness isn't debilitating like it once was. I'm not on ANY medication either. I am proud of this.

On the flip side, I could never share any of my mental health history with people at work because of my line of work. Also, I have seen firsthand what happens to a teacher who unravels -- a friend's mental health condition was used against her. There is a lot of gray fuzziness in my friend's case, particularly because of some questionable ways she handled a situation, but long story short, she no longer has a position at my school, but she is subbing, probably because she has hella seniority and tenure, and by letting her sub, the district can keep her in a place where she can't do much damage while still avoiding a lawsuit.

So...yes, I support the idea, and no, I could not stick my neck out. I have years left before retirement, and I have to think of that.

[tamago23.livejournal.com]

I'm very open about my mental illness. I see it as a political act (we're here, this is part of our lives) and a humanitarian thing (reaching out to help others with depression). Silence supports stigma.

[amon-zero.livejournal.com]

Yes!

[miss-bontemps.livejournal.com]

What do you think? And if you were "crazy" - would you be willing to stick your neck out?

When I was diagnosed with depression six years ago, outside of my close circle of friends, I didn't tell a damn soul*. I didn't want to deal with any of the stigma attached to it. And even now, I find myself wavering on whether or not I'll pipe in with my own experiences when depression comes up in conversation.

The only thing I have to say about the concept of everybody who is mental, emotional and neurological different coming out would be . . . well, just about everybody would be coming out. All of my family. Half my friends. God knows how many coworkers. Because so many are like you are now, like I was then, managing.

Maybe it would be worth it, maybe then folks would finally see how much effort it takes to 'pass' as biochemically and neurologically average.

Who knows.

p.s. I'm throwing you the horns \M/ \m/ for reasons best known to you and axel. :)

*I did tell this one guy, and LO the lecture I got. After THAT I didn't tell a soul.

[missjanette.livejournal.com]

I have told some ppl I work with about my depression & the stuff that goes along with it. I told them mostly so they'd stop bugging me about things that I sometimes cannot help.
I was feeling kind of defiant about it - if they continued to handle things the way they had been, I'd have been within my rights to file a grievance. What they were doing could be considered a disability discrimination situation. I wasn't asking to be given permission to be a wreck, I was asking for some help and time to get myself on track at work.

I've lived w mentally ill ppl and while some of the stereotypes are true, a lot of them aren't and I wish ppl would understand that. It's especially the case w schizophrenia. I've been in the room when a loved one had a psychotic break. I was not afraid of him - I was afraid for him. He looked so lost and confused. I'm not sure he knew exactly who I was, tho he did seem to know I was a safe person who would help him and he accepted the help.

I think it would be easier if ppl understood more about mental illness as well as other invisible chronic illnesses and neuro-atypical ppl. I've been very vocal about some of the issues both socially and in the workplace and I'd like to think it's making some difference.

[bellafiga.livejournal.com]

My apologies for just reading this now(i was taking a break from all things online). But being one of the crazies(which people often think i'm over stating because I'm not bipolar and nor do i hear voices, but that doesn't negate how very clearly you differ from... well, everyone) I will happily and PROUDLY come out with you!

It's hard embracing this without making it a crutch or excuse or even a weapon.

But yes let's all come out and talk to our imaginary friends and try to bite our own faces off, together:P

[amon-zero.livejournal.com]

It's no great secret that I and most of the people I'm really close to fall into the group you're talking about here. I make myself feel better about that by also noting that my friends are an extremely creative bunch, and these things seem to go hand-in-hand (among my friends, at least - there's a selection bias at work here, of course).

Although people have noted real problems with the LGBT/mentally-not-quite-comfortable analogy, I think you & Axel are on to a fine idea... under almost all circumstances it's better to be "out and proud", if only because it helps to build a community, and where there is community there is (hopefully) confidence and support.

Go, you!! :-)

[excess-and-oohs.livejournal.com]

you can choose to or not. i choose who i do and who i don't tell and i fall into the crazy/bipolar-schizoaffective category. i do not have voices commanding me to do anything. most people with psychotic illnesses (for lack of a better, non-patronizing term) are actually reclusive and do not hurt anybody, so yes, that would be a positive thing for the idiots to know. the idiots are the general population. not just the ones who aren't crazy, so no, i'm not being biased in favor of crazy people and have certainly gone through a lot of bad shit with crazy peoiple. but, like muslim terrorists, it's not the majority.

there's a group in nyc for artists with the crazy, but as a recluse i have not had any desire to join them. or anyone else.

i think for the most part that the general population is full of shitty people who refuse or are unable to think for themselves, so it would take quite a long time for a movement like this to break the surface. not that it might not be worth doing, but you might have trouble finding crazies to join you (and i don't know if unipolar depression strikes fear in the heart of the average citizen anymore, so maybe you'd need someone more like... someone to help you. thouh, depression was "crazy" less than a century ago.

now, nothing and nobody is crazy. at least in the united states of america.

sure, i'll stick my neck out (and have, and have gotten beat down for it too many times, but i refuse to believe that it makes me inferior). let me know when.

[neoliminal.livejournal.com]

Whenever I get too open about my illness, I lose something. My job, my relationships, my money... and really, that probably just the illness anyway. I explain away my weekly meetings as PT (Physical Therapy if anyone bothers to ask) and that I'm "fine, just thinking about some family stuff" if I'm caught being D at work.

I had a friend of mine point out that people simply treat you differently when they find out you have an illness. Let's face it, I have something potentially fatal. Most people don't want to be friends with terminal people because of the emotional strain it creates. Being friends with me? That's emotional strain. So coming out, well it doesn't seem like a great idea to me.

[snickerpuss.livejournal.com]

I always open my big yap; whether that's a good thing or not, I can't say. I do know that I get a good bashing every now and then for suggesting that surgical/pharmaceutical options work for me! I should just eat less meat, get more sun, meditate, etc.... it's hard to have opinions. :)