Scenes from the gender wars: part I

[the_siobhan]

In a post I made a couple of weeks ago, there was a casual reference to a friend who got hassled for breastfeeding in public.

Well, there's more to the story than that. And it hasn't ended yet.

First of all, some background info. For those who don't know, women have the right to be topless in Ontario. It's considered a discrimination issue, if men can show their nipples in public then it is discriminatory to prevent women from doing the same thing. I think the wording of the original court decision contained some language about it not being done with obvious sexual intent but I'll have to look that up later.

On top of that there is specific language in the Ontario Human Rights Code about breastfeeding itself. The actual text contains the following paragraph;

"You have rights as a nursing mother. For example, you have the right to breastfeed a child in a public area. No one should prevent you from nursing your child simply because you are in a public area. They should not ask you to "cover up", disturb you, or ask you to move to another area that is more "discreet"."

Seems pretty straightforward right? So when E was approached at a family event while trying to feed her daughter (12 days old at the time and having a little trouble getting the hang of this nursing thing) and pressured to move elsewhere, she refused. Instead she fired off an email to the contact address of the organization asking for an apology and some assurance that volunteers would be educated as to the contents of the Code.

It should have ended there. Instead turns out that the person in question is the organizer of the "family" events and she refuses to admit that she did anything wrong. So far she has published E's email to a public yahoogroups list, I assume looking for backup from the members. She has posted her breastfeeding policy for the events in organization's newsletter. She has posted a public archive of all the emails and public messages on the groups website. She has attempted to bully my friend, misrepresented what happened and flat-out refused to back down. Most of the details of who did/said what/when/to who are written about here and here.

All to avoid having to make one lousy apology.

So now the city counseller for the riding has gotten involved, the city has made a statement about their policy on breastfeeding, the city department of Parks has been contacted and there may very well be a Human Rights Case. And hundreds of women (and a few men) have offered to come to the park and whip their shirts off in a show of support.

Personally I have huge amounts of admiration for E, who is sticking up for herself and her principles in spite of the fact that she needs all this stress like she needs a hole in her head. And absolutely amazed that this Mason person can't see past her own ego long enough to realize that she fucked up.

Oh yeah, and the patrionizing way Mason writes about "the public space quilt" makes me want to yak.

Comments

[kudzu.livejournal.com]

Wow, that is a wacky snowball of events. Who would have thought so many people would care so much about seeing boobies?

[kest]

"the public space quilt"?! Daaang. I missed that one.

[faerierhona.livejournal.com]

huh? I just dont get it - what are boobs for, originally, apart from feeding the next generation? I actually heard one girl once say "Breastfeeding is disgusting - boobs are for sex!"

[death4breakfast.livejournal.com]

I am not disgusted or put off by breast feeding, but everybody's entitled to their priorities. ;)

[serpentstar.livejournal.com]

I think Mason has condemned herself pretty well from that first email:

"Public space needs compromise, friendly negotiation, a willingness to bend, even when one's precise rights are not followed to the letter."

Huh? So, as long as the Queen Prude of the Park wants you to bend to her will, your human rights are irrelevant?

[hobbitbabe.livejournal.com]

I understand that the wording in the Ontario topless law is something like "not for sexual or commercial purposes", which meant that the strippers in Ottawa who started sunbathing in chaises longues between the parking lot and the road in front of their bar were pushing the envelope.

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

Advertising strikes me as a commercial purpose.

[hobbitbabe.livejournal.com]

Ayup.

[jeancroix.livejournal.com]

Has anyone asked Mason if she'd like to eat her meals sitting on a bench in the restroom?

[panic-girl.livejournal.com]

Repeatedly. She ignores it, or says that there's lots of room in the restroom.

[jeancroix.livejournal.com]

It sounds like an apology is all but out of the question at this point. I hope the breastfeeders continue to frequent the park en masse for the short term, at least, so that none of them have to face the shrew one-on-one. This is a battle she cannot win, as long as those involved don't back down on standing up for their rights.

/US libertarian pov

[panic-girl.livejournal.com]

There's been some talk of a boob-in. Two more of our friends have JUST given birth (like in the last two days) so there's a bunch of lactating boobies in the world right now, just waiting to offend Jutta a poor young hockey player. ;)

[jeancroix.livejournal.com]

I can attest that 20 years ago, as a poor young hockey player, I would personally have been far from offended.

[panic-girl.livejournal.com]

I flipped out at the "hysterics" part. Fuck that.

Re: Scenes from the gender wars: part I

[pir-anha.livejournal.com]

wow. sounds like mason is the big fish in that little pond, and considers herself the arbiter for public decency. i didn't see a single notice that she had actually been approached by youths whose feelings she's allegedly protecting.

making the original email public, including E's full name is ... man, i can't express just how offensive i find it. (even though i also think that E's original could have been a little less threatening to start with, regardless of her being completely correct about her rights.)

yeah, the Park Prude has a giant ego problem. the way she writes of how supportive she is of breastfeeding (as long as done, you know, in a way she considers modest enough) makes it pretty clear that she thinks her morals are the only right morals. "public space quilt" my hairy white ass.

Re: Scenes from the gender wars: part I

[50-ft-queenie.livejournal.com]

In what way did you find E's original email threatening?

Re: Scenes from the gender wars: part I

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

I can sorta see how it might be read that way. If the in-person incident left the impression that E was really pissed, her mention of the Human Rights Code could be interpreted as holding up a Really Big Stick.

Re: Scenes from the gender wars: part I

[50-ft-queenie.livejournal.com]

I suppose. I can understand where she was coming from though. I think this incident was just the last straw for E after the difficult pregnancy, landlord woes, grad school problems etc. The baby's finally born and healthy, and E's finally able to get out for a bit, and then gets hassled about breastfeeding on her first public outing in months.

Mason really chose the wrong person to pick on that day. Sounds like Mason has had this coming for a while. I was reading in Lixx's journal about how Mason hassled a "non-park regular" for walking her dog in Dufferin Grove, and warned her not to come back.

Re: Scenes from the gender wars: part I

[pir-anha.livejournal.com]

The City of Toronto and Councillor Giambrone's Office have also been made aware of my complaint.

that's pretty heavy hitting in my book. i would have not involved the city at that original stage. (after the newsletter, i would have, but maybe that wouldn't have happened. hard to say now.)

i am sorry E's had to deal with so many problems during her pregnancy, but i don't think ms. mason should have to bear the brunt of that. note that i think she was entirely out of line with her request; i just also think that E brought a howitzer to bear in response.

Re: Scenes from the gender wars: part I

[50-ft-queenie.livejournal.com]

i am sorry E's had to deal with so many problems during her pregnancy, but i don't think ms. mason should have to bear the brunt of that.

I don't think Mason is bearing the brunt of anything. Mason's request was illegal, pure and simple. She had no business making that request, and I'd wager a lot of money that E is not the first nursing mother she's harassed.

note that i think she was entirely out of line with her request; i just also think that E brought a howitzer to bear in response.

I am not E, but I believe her intent was to convey to the park organizers that she expected them to take her complaint and her requests seriously. Far too many women, esp. pregnant and post-partum, get brushed off as "crazy" or "hysterical", which is an adjective Ms. Mason was more than happy to throw around.

Re: Scenes from the gender wars: part I

[pir-anha.livejournal.com]

see, i come from the point of view where heavy threats make me take somebody less seriously than i would a simple straightforward complaint. i think E was doing just fine until i came to that sentence i quoted; she made it clear that she knew her rights, and she sounded perfectly reasonable about it. if i had been the original offender, that would have impressed me, and quite possibly made me rethink my original position. but by involving the city, i might feel wronged, as if i had not been given a chance to explain myself. that's just me, though -- i try to put myself into a situation when analyzing it. from my experience conflict resolution is easier if one doesn't push a person to the wall right away.

*shrug*. i don't blame E in the least; i've already said that i thought mason was out of line, but you asked what i considered threatening, and there you are.

as to your bet, i would think that with the amount of publicity this has been getting, said nursing mothers would by now have come out of the woodwork. maybe it was just a single instance of a basically decent if somewhat prudish person overreacting. i'm not ready to crucify her for that -- but i damn well think she should apologize, issue a retraction to her "rules for breastfeeding mothers", and work on her attitude about what's "decent".

Re: Scenes from the gender wars: part I

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

The weird thing is that she is somebody who has done a huge amount for the park and for the community. Yet for some reason she can't get past this big blind spot.

She strikes me as somebody who has publically recognized for doing Good Things and has had so much coummity support for so long that when she actually screws up she can no longer recognize it.

"public space quilt" my hairy white ass.

*cracks up*

Re: Scenes from the gender wars: part I

[lil-m-moses.livejournal.com]

Sounds to me like she'd fit right in in the American South: lots of perfectly nice helpful people who are unfortunately and inexplicably bigoted in the worst ways and completely incapable of thinking any other way about the topic of bigotry.

If Canada had a human spaceflight program, I'd so totally emigrate. =/

Re: Scenes from the gender wars: part I

[hobbitbabe.livejournal.com]

Canada has an astronaut program; it depends on hitching rides. Seems to me there's a Canadian entry in the X-Prize too.

Re: Scenes from the gender wars: part I

[lil-m-moses.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, I'm not quite up to being an astronaut myself (though I'd love to and may still work myself up to applying after a little more schooling and a physique overhaul), so I'm all about ground support, and I'm pretty sure Canadia doesn't have a lot of that besides for the arms. And shoot, even the robotic arm instructors got sent down here to work.

[dj-doc.livejournal.com]

Well personally I can think about more relevant topics than breastfeeding in public but anyway if it couldn't be avoided (read I don't think it's a good idea to attend "public" blabla with a kid that young) I can't care less. But when someone fucks up like that organizer than that's reason enough to make it a public issue. My support to E!

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

The event in question is a dinner specifically organized for families. As in people with kids of various ages in tow. In fact, other mothers have breastfed at the event, so E has no idea why she's been singled out.

[hellsop.livejournal.com]

Go E!

Seriously, I grew up in a household with almost weekly LLL meeting. I can't think of a bodily function or method of dealing with infants in a variety of cirumstances that is LESS offensive.

[disastrid.livejournal.com]

the bit about "her gender sisters" was the point at which i got enraged. bitch, i'm stuck with enough crazy relatives i can't get rid of, i don't need one more.

e has been my hero for a long time. this only reinforces that fact.

[50-ft-queenie.livejournal.com]

We may both have cunts, but I'm no fucking sister to a nutcase like that!

[siani-hedgehog.livejournal.com]

that woman makes me *so* angry.
fucking puffed up powermad volunteer. cow. what makes me sick is all her crap about being flexible, and yet she can't see that the smaller amount of bending would be for her to look the other way, rather than the breastfeeding mother to go and sit in the bloody toilet.

grrr...

[razorjak.livejournal.com]

Not to make light of the situation, but does the organizer in question happen to be related to anyone in the Bush regime?

It sounds par for the course ... " doesn't matter how obviously wrong I am, dammnit! I am not wrong! "

[emulsional.livejournal.com]

The only boobs being exposed throughout all of this is Jutta and the other assholes who put human rights on the backburner for "politness" sake.

I've been raging on a slow boil abotu this and I'm not quite sure when I'm going to blow up and at whom... I wouldn't want to waste ammo.

[50-ft-queenie.livejournal.com]

Blow up at Jutta, and make sure you cc Councillor Giambrone, NOW Magazine and the Mayor's office.

Civil Court!!!

[crash187.livejournal.com]

For Human Rights Violation, Harassment and Pain and Suffering!!!

But this is coming from someone who lives in the highest litigation area of the States.

However, my support is there. Kick the stupid bitch's arse!!!

Dee

[(Anonymous)]

I love the fact that these people always use the young children as there excuse. "Really I'm not a prude, I'm just concerned about the children". Children are not ashamed of the human body until taught to be by there parents. Give it up folks, Janet Jackson showed her nipple to thousands of TV viewers, children included, and the sun still rose the next day. But take heart, at least we live in Canada where citizens fight for the right to bare boobs rather than arms.