Women are allowed to go topless in public in Ontario if it is for "non-sexual" reasons. (Ie breast=feeding, or just because it's hot out.)
It was decided by a court case about 10 years ago. Most of the arguments against seemed to boil down to "kids might see", which is a logic that makes my head hurt.
Following that same non-logic, I was taken aback a couple of years ago by a vehement letter-to-the-editor of a magazine I subscribe to.
The writer was angry that an article about breast cancer had included pictures of naked breasts, and berated the editors soundly for it. She ended the letter by demanding "What would have happened if my six year old son had seen that?"
Um..he would have learned that adult women have breasts. What's the big deal?
More non-logic: mothers who insist that nursing until age 3 or 4 is fine, but then freak out at the thought of their child, at age 6 or 7, seeing a topless woman. Why are breasts "wonderful and nurturing" at one stage of life, but then "shocking and inappropriate" at another?
I remember that campaign fondly. The protestors decided to march "topless" (I've always found it a silly word). Not surprisingly, it attracted a lot of support...
I think it was in '97, in Kitchener, a woman got kicked out of a public pool where she had pulled the top part of her bathing suit down to nurse her baby. Was she kicked out for nudity? Nope, the law permitted her to expose her breast to feed her child. They kicked her out because she was breaking another rule: "No Eating Allowed In The Pool." Heh. I kid you not.
I happen to agree that it's unfair that men can go topless many places and women can't. I think it should be the same for both.
I don't think men should be allowed to go around topless.
Seriously -- this isn't a joke. I think it's indecent for men to walk around shirtless in general. Inside someone's own home, at some beaches, that's different -- although I'd like to see men's bathing suits go back to having tank tops. I think that there should be specific topless beaches where men and women can go topless, and specific nude beaches where men and women can go wearing nothing, and, at the rest of the beaches, both men and women would wear both bottoms and tops.
When I was growing up, my sister and I had to adhere to precisely the same set of modesty standards -- which meant that my mother once said to me, "You're not leaving the house like that," and made me change into a longer skirt.
I don't actually disagree with this, but that might be just because I myself have no urge to go topless ever. I AM the white chick, and I barely go without sleeves for that reason, never mind exposing more sensitive skin.[1]
I'd be curious as to what people who feel strongly about being able to go shirtless might say in response. Male or female.
(And what would become of punk shows without the ubiquitous shirtless guy?)
[1] Having said that, I've probably been nekkid in public more often than is the national average.
(And what would become of punk shows without the ubiquitous shirtless guy?)
There should be as many shirtless female punk musicians as male. That would be fair. I think punk shows are a venue which count as "place where normal rules of decorum are modified", after all.
For the record... the body part display on my part (eyes) has to do with anonymity (i'm a teacher...dont' want students knowing it's me if they stumble across me) not lack of confidence.
The night before last I had a dream about teaching a lesson to a group of students while I was wearing no shirt. Partway through I noticed that I had no shirt on and decided to act as if it were a political statement rather than just absent-mindedness. We were in this classroom which happened to be readily accessible from the gift shop of the museum we'd been browsing.
I dream about being naked in public and being perfectly comfortable. That might have something to do with the fact that nobody notices me in my dreams, but even when they do, they don't notice that so it doesn't make me uncomfortable.
But, then, I'm the girl who went to school without pants one day because I was getting dressed in a hurry and put on my coat before my pants. Since I always put on my coat last I figured I was done even though I'd meant to put on my pants and forgot all about them. And yes, I do often put on my shoes and THEN my pants.
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(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-18 12:14 pm (UTC)They should go to:
www.topfreedom.com
www.geocities.com/womens_choice_org/topfreedom.html
(Everything is political)
real live breasts
Date: 2003-12-18 12:31 pm (UTC)It was decided by a court case about 10 years ago. Most of the arguments against seemed to boil down to "kids might see", which is a logic that makes my head hurt.
Re: real live breasts
Date: 2003-12-18 12:44 pm (UTC)The writer was angry that an article about breast cancer had included pictures of naked breasts, and berated the editors soundly for it. She ended the letter by demanding "What would have happened if my six year old son had seen that?"
Um..he would have learned that adult women have breasts. What's the big deal?
More non-logic: mothers who insist that nursing until age 3 or 4 is fine, but then freak out at the thought of their child, at age 6 or 7, seeing a topless woman. Why are breasts "wonderful and nurturing" at one stage of life, but then "shocking and inappropriate" at another?
Re: real live breasts
Date: 2003-12-18 01:49 pm (UTC)It's always struck me as quite ridiculous. Sure, breats are a secondary sex characteristic of adulthood. So is facial hair on men.
Re: real live breasts
Date: 2003-12-18 01:47 pm (UTC)I remember that campaign fondly. The protestors decided to march "topless" (I've always found it a silly word). Not surprisingly, it attracted a lot of support...
Re: real live breasts
Date: 2003-12-18 01:55 pm (UTC)MOM! THOSE LADIES HAVE TAKEN THEIR *HEADS* OFF!
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-18 03:28 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-18 12:51 pm (UTC)I don't think men should be allowed to go around topless.
Seriously -- this isn't a joke. I think it's indecent for men to walk around shirtless in general. Inside someone's own home, at some beaches, that's different -- although I'd like to see men's bathing suits go back to having tank tops. I think that there should be specific topless beaches where men and women can go topless, and specific nude beaches where men and women can go wearing nothing, and, at the rest of the beaches, both men and women would wear both bottoms and tops.
When I was growing up, my sister and I had to adhere to precisely the same set of modesty standards -- which meant that my mother once said to me, "You're not leaving the house like that," and made me change into a longer skirt.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-18 01:44 pm (UTC)I'd be curious as to what people who feel strongly about being able to go shirtless might say in response. Male or female.
(And what would become of punk shows without the ubiquitous shirtless guy?)
[1] Having said that, I've probably been nekkid in public more often than is the national average.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-18 01:54 pm (UTC)There should be as many shirtless female punk musicians as male. That would be fair. I think punk shows are a venue which count as "place where normal rules of decorum are modified", after all.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-19 10:06 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-19 10:31 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-18 12:22 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-18 12:34 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-18 03:29 pm (UTC)Also, that icon photo is incredibly adorable.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-18 12:35 pm (UTC)THE BUTTAFLY GUIDE TO INTERPRETING FRIENDSTER (OR LJ) PHOTOS (http://www.buttafly.com/originals/friendster2.php)
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-18 01:40 pm (UTC)And accurate.
For some reason, given how often I am actually holding an alcoholic beverage, I don't think I have any pictures of me like that.
Weird.
But they left out animals and furry cartoons.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-19 05:21 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-18 03:41 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-19 05:25 am (UTC)And my thoughts revert back to it each time I see one of those "types" of icons.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-19 04:58 pm (UTC)i'm all hot shit and stuff. :):P
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-22 05:32 am (UTC)Fattie.
:P
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-22 06:27 am (UTC):P
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-22 06:56 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-18 12:41 pm (UTC)Mmm. Boobies. :-)
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-18 01:55 pm (UTC)I remember the lesson, too. They probably didn't.
I am my own political party
Date: 2003-12-18 01:57 pm (UTC)I have always heard that it is normal to have dreams of being naked in public and trying to hide.
My dreams of being naked in public always involved acting like I did it on purpose.
I dread to think what this says about my psychology.
Re: I am my own political party
Date: 2003-12-18 04:45 pm (UTC)But, then, I'm the girl who went to school without pants one day because I was getting dressed in a hurry and put on my coat before my pants. Since I always put on my coat last I figured I was done even though I'd meant to put on my pants and forgot all about them. And yes, I do often put on my shoes and THEN my pants.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-18 09:50 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-19 06:27 am (UTC)