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the_siobhanThis one is actually the first one I started writing, and it's been the toughest one to write in any way that makes sense. I still don't really have an ending for it.
So there was a Drama on LJ a few weeks ago. (Drama on LJ! Say it ain't so!) and like a dumbass I opened my mouth. Wasn't my problem and it didn't help, but yah know.
Anyway, the point of this is that I referred to somebody as a "raging cunt".
The audience for this particular epithet was a very different crowd from the usual reprobates with whom I normally engage in shit-talking and potty humour on an average Saturday night, and I was quite frankly taken aback by the amount of offense it caused. Not surprised that it was insulting mind you, obviously you don't throw around names like that unless you damn well intend to be insulting. But this wasn't a group that were shy about people who toss around swear words on a regular basis, so the strength of the reaction to that particular insult, and how inflmmatory it was compared to what would have happened if I had called somebody an asshole or a fuckstick or whatever - that surprised me.
So anyway, I apologized but I also continued to chew on it for a while, because, well because that's what I do. Cultural differences and differences in what is considered socially acceptable are really interesting to me. And what made this even more fascinating, is that for a long time people were using language that was offending me and I wanted to think about that.
The language being used was "date-rapist". And -- from my perspective - it was being used to shut down people who disagreed with the speaker.
In this particular argument I saw it used no less than three times, and it wasn't an isolated incident. Somebody would question or criticise a writer's argument. Or would question her wording of her argument. Or would voice an interpretation of the writer's argument that was different than what the writer had intended.
And the critic would be accused of telling the writer what the writer really thought - of putting words into her mouth. Of saying the critic knew the writer's mind better than the writer herself did.
And that's the kind of shit that date-rapists do. That's date-rapist thinking.
Wow.
First of all, let's get one thing out of the way, and that's my opinon of comparing the experience of having one's words twisted in a debate to that of rape. As somebody who has lived through both, I can assure you without a doubt that there are absolutely no simularities whatsoever.
Having said that, discussions of rape (and can I interject here that I think adding the pre-fix "date-" to that word is offensive?) don't usually upset me. Even when people use it to make stupid comparisons. What it describes is pretty evil, but the word itself is, well, just a word, right? Like cunt is just a word.
It bugs me that something so volatile is being thrown around like it's a casual insult. It bugs me that people who call themselves feminists are using an infammatory accusation, probably the worst one they could possibly make against a person, and using it to shut down disagreement. But ultimately it's all just name-calling and anybody who lets their actions be controlled out of fear of it being said they have rapist's mentality is just as sad as a person who lets their actions be controlled out of fear of being called a cunt or a bitch or a slut.
Right?
And then in the course of the argument, a man said he found the analogy offensive. And he was banned for his vituperativeness. And mocked for daring to be offended for rape victims.
He was mocked. Because he was offended "for" rape victims.
Because men are never victims of sexual assault. Because only girl children are ever victimized by adults, and only male adults at that. Because men never have to support the women in their lives through the experience of rape and help them pick up the pieces.
None of this can ever touch a man's life. He can only be offended for somebody. And that sentiment is a fitting target for scorn.
And I have no way of articulating just how repugnant I found that attitude. I've called myself a feminist since I was 12. I've debated it's value with younger women who rejected the name because they felt it was divisive or archaic. I've withstood Andrea Dworking and Camille Paglia and untold numbers of all-women-are-witches-let-me-paint-pictures-with-my-menstral-blood crackposts. This the first time I've ever actually wanted to distance myself from the label.
Am I still talking about "just words"? Because it sure as hell doesn't feel like it.
So there was a Drama on LJ a few weeks ago. (Drama on LJ! Say it ain't so!) and like a dumbass I opened my mouth. Wasn't my problem and it didn't help, but yah know.
Anyway, the point of this is that I referred to somebody as a "raging cunt".
The audience for this particular epithet was a very different crowd from the usual reprobates with whom I normally engage in shit-talking and potty humour on an average Saturday night, and I was quite frankly taken aback by the amount of offense it caused. Not surprised that it was insulting mind you, obviously you don't throw around names like that unless you damn well intend to be insulting. But this wasn't a group that were shy about people who toss around swear words on a regular basis, so the strength of the reaction to that particular insult, and how inflmmatory it was compared to what would have happened if I had called somebody an asshole or a fuckstick or whatever - that surprised me.
So anyway, I apologized but I also continued to chew on it for a while, because, well because that's what I do. Cultural differences and differences in what is considered socially acceptable are really interesting to me. And what made this even more fascinating, is that for a long time people were using language that was offending me and I wanted to think about that.
The language being used was "date-rapist". And -- from my perspective - it was being used to shut down people who disagreed with the speaker.
In this particular argument I saw it used no less than three times, and it wasn't an isolated incident. Somebody would question or criticise a writer's argument. Or would question her wording of her argument. Or would voice an interpretation of the writer's argument that was different than what the writer had intended.
And the critic would be accused of telling the writer what the writer really thought - of putting words into her mouth. Of saying the critic knew the writer's mind better than the writer herself did.
And that's the kind of shit that date-rapists do. That's date-rapist thinking.
Wow.
First of all, let's get one thing out of the way, and that's my opinon of comparing the experience of having one's words twisted in a debate to that of rape. As somebody who has lived through both, I can assure you without a doubt that there are absolutely no simularities whatsoever.
Having said that, discussions of rape (and can I interject here that I think adding the pre-fix "date-" to that word is offensive?) don't usually upset me. Even when people use it to make stupid comparisons. What it describes is pretty evil, but the word itself is, well, just a word, right? Like cunt is just a word.
It bugs me that something so volatile is being thrown around like it's a casual insult. It bugs me that people who call themselves feminists are using an infammatory accusation, probably the worst one they could possibly make against a person, and using it to shut down disagreement. But ultimately it's all just name-calling and anybody who lets their actions be controlled out of fear of it being said they have rapist's mentality is just as sad as a person who lets their actions be controlled out of fear of being called a cunt or a bitch or a slut.
Right?
And then in the course of the argument, a man said he found the analogy offensive. And he was banned for his vituperativeness. And mocked for daring to be offended for rape victims.
He was mocked. Because he was offended "for" rape victims.
Because men are never victims of sexual assault. Because only girl children are ever victimized by adults, and only male adults at that. Because men never have to support the women in their lives through the experience of rape and help them pick up the pieces.
None of this can ever touch a man's life. He can only be offended for somebody. And that sentiment is a fitting target for scorn.
And I have no way of articulating just how repugnant I found that attitude. I've called myself a feminist since I was 12. I've debated it's value with younger women who rejected the name because they felt it was divisive or archaic. I've withstood Andrea Dworking and Camille Paglia and untold numbers of all-women-are-witches-let-me-paint-pictures-with-my-menstral-blood crackposts. This the first time I've ever actually wanted to distance myself from the label.
Am I still talking about "just words"? Because it sure as hell doesn't feel like it.
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(no subject)
Date: 2005-01-30 08:55 am (UTC)Jon?
(no subject)
Date: 2005-01-30 08:56 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-01-30 09:01 am (UTC)I was ticked off when I found out you were in town for Saturnalia. I didn't go because, well, I live in the burbs of Chicago. And theevilchemist never says who is coming by. I've been keeping up with your lj posts.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-01-30 09:21 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-01-30 04:25 pm (UTC)Nope. Just drop me a line at mandor1971@livejournal.com. That will get to my new addy and I can respond so you'll have it :)
Would be great seeing you & Axel and whomever else would be coming (Casper?).
I keep meaning to drive over to T.O. I bought a new car year before last, though and it goes fast enough that I'd go to jail of OPP's finest got bored. The Miata was more fun that way. Fun to drive but wouldn't go so fast that I'd end up in jail. Tho I like the idea of breaking my 2.3 hrs from Windsor to T.O. record...